A good cop on bad cops
"We stay here a minimum of twenty years. Mayors, movements, come and go."
In the course of developing a documentary project about crime and inequality in NYC, I have become friendly with a retired NYPD supervisor. This person rose through the ranks over a thirty-five year career training scores of officers, some of whom I have also met and who continue to admire their old boss.
While the documentary project has been postponed due to the Covid-19 pandemic, the recently retired supervisor and I have kept in touch. As the protests over the tragic police killings of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Rayshard Brooks and many others grew, and the Capitol Police’s uneven response to the Capitol Riots brought their bias even even closer to the surface, I realized I had an opportunity to hear, generally speaking, what police culture thinks and feels about the country’s shifting attitude towards racism and policing from an inside voice. The retired supervisor is an active participant in national police organizations, and is in touch with officers around the country.
Despite having a grown daughter in the NYPD, he spoke freely with me several times over the past months. On the condition of anonymity, of course: Much of what he says speaks to the NYPD’s culture of retribution. Our interview has been edited for clarity and condensed.
What does it make you think and feel, as a retired officer, when you hear “defund the police”?
Defund the police is ridiculous. I know what they’re saying - what the politicians are saying. What they’re really saying is they’re gonna take $ away from the huge budget we have here in the NYPD. Not necessarily reducing officers per se. But taking that money and putting it into different community groups. Can I tell you what I think about that - and mind you I am in touch with a lot of officers on a regular basis - can I tell you what I really think?
Yes.
That’s not gonna fucking work! If it didn’t work in the 1960’s, why would it work now? I think that’s just lining the pockets of these non profits, each director is making good money, and where is it going? What are they really doing? Why don’t they put that out in the media? Show me the results of decades of pouring money into community nonprofits. The proof is in the pudding on the streets that cops deal with every day.
Speaking of the street. What did you feel about the protests here in New York City over the summer?
There’s a lot of generalizations being made about police right now. But I’ll tell you this, when a bad cop does something wrong, we all pay for it. The public takes a broad brush and applies it to all officers. And a frustrating thing in all this is that good officers - those who know how to communicate, have no complaints against them, even if their heart is in the right place, they’re still getting yelled at by the protestors.
If I were the PBA president right now, I’d call every police department in the country and I’d say, “let’s walk out” and let America see how it feels. No officers on the streets. Let’s try that for three days. And we’ll see how much kumbaya is going to be going on.
Bad cops. Talk about them.
Absolutely. There are many officers that should not be wearing the uniform. That have no business being cops. Not one cop I spoke to out of many who saw the video (of George Floyd’s murder) thought what that officer (Derek Chauvin) did was acceptable. I used to train officers. I would use a video like that - dark as it is - to show younger officers exactly what NOT to do.
Can you talk about race and policing in NYC. What dynamics were you aware of as a working police officer?
I’m Puerto Rican. I can’t erase the color of my skin. Sammy Sosa did it but…(laughs) I’m an American, but a Puerto Rican. And here in America, people will look first at the color of my skin, and next listen to what comes out of my mouth. And it shouldn’t be that way. But I knew going in as a young cop I was going to be stereotyped. So I had to be 100% in everything I did, because I represented my community. It is what it is. Let me tell you a story, OK?
OK
In 1990, I was the first cop in New York City to challenge the NYPD publicly. David Dinkins was mayor. And I held a press conference challenging the NYPD about racial injustice within the department. We were not being treated equally within the department itself. William J Bratton was coming in. I had the balls to do it. The mistreatment was pervasive. We were being disciplined at a higher rate. We were being terminated for no reason. All based on our ethnicity. I thought this is not my America. They rehired two cops they had fired 7 years before, because it had been such blatant discrimination. They didn’t fire me - but here’s the thing. 98% of cops won’t tell you how they feel. They are afraid of retribution. Retaliation from their peers or management itself. So I’ve been on the other side of this.
Does something happen to your humanity when you put on the uniform that makes you feel or act differently?
I always wanted to be a cop. Always. I did it for free as an Auxiliary (part time reserve). So when I put on that uniform for real, I said, I’m going to go into a community and make it my community, and I’m going to make sure there’s no crime in my community. That’s just me. But I’ll tell you, for policing from before 1980 -1990, white cops did not care about poor communities. I lived in a poor community - 90th precinct. And you know what they used to tell me, about the community I grew up in when I became a cop? They used to say to me, “fuck that community. We don’t live there. Fuck them. Let them kill themselves.” That was the attitude until William J Bratton came in.
What changed?
He introduced COMPSTAT (short for COMPare STATistics, a controversial data driven management tool and approach towards policing that is credited with reducing crime 75%. It is also the engine that drives officers to meet arrest quotas). He said, you will serve the community even if you don’t live there. For me, this makes sense - once you put on that uniform, you should serve the community where you are working no matter if you live there or not. Unfortunately, that (COMPSTAT) generation of cops, that mentality needed to be retired.
I remember when women came into the department. They were called skirts. They were crucified. They were told, “you’re taking a man’s job. Get your ass back to the fucking kitchen.” It was awful. Every group gets a beating when they come in. It’s almost like immigration in American culture. The Irish, the Italians were discriminated, until they become part of the culture.
What is it about police culture that makes it rigid?
It was a very tight knit group back when I came in the 80’s. But even though they said, “I don’t like those Hispanic people”, I knew they had my back. The uniform is blue, even if my skin is dark. It doesn’t mean they’re going to invite me over to their house for a BBQ. But when I’m working, we’re together.
Is the uniform deeper than the color of your skin?
It really is. And it comes down to those who have died wearing it. But it’s changed over the years - it’s not what it once was. It’s not as unified as it was. My daughter is a Lieutenant in the NYPD - it’s not as tight as it was when I was working.
What effect has this had on the way police interact with the communities they work in?
I think it’s hurt the job. I do. Let me ask you a question.
OK
In 1990 how many police captains in NYPD were black? Out of 35,000 officers? Guess.
I don’t know
There were two! Two.
I was watching a senator on TV the other day who was asked, “Is racism systemic throughout every police department in America.” I can’t remember what he said but I’ll tell you the answer. The answer is yes. The simple reason is you have human beings running these places. And we all have our biases.
Do you blame police officers’ humanity? Or do you blame their culture? Or do you blame politicians for mandating them to enforce biased laws?
It really starts with us being human beings. At one time there were laws against interracial marriage. Do you believe that? To me, when you have human beings in any organization, the larger the organization, the more individuals you will have who will act on their stereotypes.
I used to work with Irish cops. They’d say, “I’m not racist, everyone’s good in my book.” And I’d say yeah, “Ok. You got kids?” and they’d say “…yeah?” and I’d ask them “OK. Would you be comfortable if your kid grew up and married a black or hispanic person?” And they would not love that thought. To me, that’s a litmus test.
Is the policing problem we’re having in America a problem with policing itself? Are all cops guilty.
It’s not all cops. It really isn’t. They would have fired everybody.
One of the things that makes it hard for people to believe that is something like “the blue wall.” What is the blue wall?
In the 60’s and 70’s, there really was the blue wall. It was like the mob. That’s changed.
But then how come there are so few convictions of officers for abuses like those caught on video, in Eric Garner’s death for example.
Ok sure. Where did Eric Garner die?
Staten Island
Bingo. And do you know who the three major groups that make up Staten Island are?
No.
Cops, firemen, and the mob. Look at the district attorney there. Look at the makeup of the jury there. All that has an effect on the outcome of a trial. Money too - if you have money for a good lawyer, more than likely you’re gonna get less time in jail or no jail. That’s the world is. (Daniel Pantaleo, the officer who killed Eric Garner, was fired by the NYPD in 2019 but did not face criminal charges)
So you’re saying that a culture of protecting cops didn’t play a role in allowing that officer to keep his job for 5 years after Garner was killed?
No. No. Well. Yes. No doubt about it. OK. You’re right. But cops go to jail. I can’t tell you how many cops lost their jobs for selling drugs. It doesn’t make the headlines.
But you’re arguing that the institutional culture of protecting cops from the inside has been on the wane for the last thirty years?
Yes. It doesn’t exist as much as it used to. Here’s another thing - why don’t we have protests when cops get killed? When you put on that uniform, you realize no one is going to care except the other people in the uniform and your family. The public is going to have their bagel, turn the page in the newspaper, and go on with their lives.
I hear you.
We’re not robots. We have feelings like everyone else. Are their cops who are brutal? Yes. I have worked with them. But I don’t put my hands on anyone unless they put their hands on me. Then I’m gonna defend myself.
Why is it so hard to change police culture?
When I was a young cop I was complaining about things - politics or something - and an old timer said to me. “Listen, mayors, movements come and go. We all stay here minimum twenty years together as a family.” And he was absolutely right. Mayors do come and go. Political flavors change. And swing back.
What’s it like working with a brutal cop?
Simple. Very simple. It’s what I told my daughter when she went into the force. I said “there’s gonna be cops out there, you’re going to hear through the grapevine about certain cops that they’re very very heavy handed with the public.” And she says “yeah what do I don’t want to be a rat.” I said “you don’t have to be a rat. You have to do what I did.” Which is, let’s say you’re the brutal cop Willie.
OK
We’re in the police car, starting the shift. I’d say “hey Willie how you doing? All good. OK so I heard rumors I don’t know if they are true, that some people around here are heavy handed… And I don’t do that. It cannot be done in front of me.” And usually, 99% of the time they’ll never do it in front of you.
So are there brutal cops? Yes. But Willie, in 35 years I had one civilian complaint. One. And I arrested every human being that moved. Trust me. I never wanted to go home. I lived and breathed policing. I had clipboards in my bathroom, wanted posters. What I learned - there’s a way to treat people.
I used to see cops go up to a group of young kids and say, “HEY, fucking assholes move” That was never me. Id go up to them and say “gentlemen, good morning. I need a favor”, and then I’d explain what I wanted. And then I would offer coffee on me. Do you think I got a problem with teenagers? No. And I started in East New York. A tough neighborhood.
So if I know how to treat people, I’m starting the conversation on the right foot. Are there people who are nasty. People who want to get physical. Absolutely. But I never initiated it.
Does the NYPD do a good enough job teaching officers and hiring officers how to start things off on the right foot?
There are psych evals yes. Attention is paid to how to get along with your coworkers. Here’s something that’s important related to that though - supervisors have a huge responsibility over how officers are going to behave in the street. If I’m a supervisor, I have 12 men and women underneath me. The supervisor leads that team, and if they’re racist, you’re not gonna challenge them in front of everybody. Because I’m the one who’s gonna give you overtime. I’m the one who’s gonna deny you days off. And I’m the one who’s gonna make your evaluation. So you’ll find cops who will keep their mouths shut and go with the program. Because they don’t want to rock the boat.
Supervisors drive some of the problems with rooting out racial-profiling in policing?
It can be pretty bad. Hopefully, if that’s who your supervisor is, he gets promoted, or he leaves, or you find a different one.
How would you characterize the supervisors you worked with over the years?
I’ve worked with all kinds of supervisors. Most of them - really decent men and women. A few of them? Idiots. And a few racists, absolutely. And I kinda knew who they were. But they stayed away from me, because I had been outspoken.
Ok so yes, human beings have biases. But where things get troubling for police is when bias combines with power.
When I trained 20 young officers, people in their 20’s - they all have kids now - I said, I want them to be like me. I want them to see the humanity in policing. I want them to not look at color. To take care of their families. And they all became supervisors and detectives, every single one of them. And to me, that’s who the leader is. Who’s the team leader? This has a tremendous influence on how officers will behave in the streets.
That cop who pushed the girl the other day. There is no need for that. But the community has to realize, we are human beings too. We can lose it too. How do you know if I’m going through a divorce, I can’t see my kid this weekend, and now I have to stand in front of thousands of protestors cursing and yelling at me?
I guess there’s a perception that when people put on the uniform and the gun, step into the ’hero ‘thing, they leave all that behind.
Ahh, no. Don’t get me wrong, when you put on the uniform there is a sense of power. But it’s how you use that power. And we all have good weeks and bad weeks. But there are people who shouldn’t be cops. Because of their attitude. Attitude is huge.
Why doesn’t NYPD do a better job of weeding out cops with bad attitudes?
I wouldn’t know the answer to that. But I’ll tell you this. If I was police commissioner, tomorrow everybody would be taking a class on communication. A lot of officers don’t know how to communicate or listen. And if you are stereotyping a group of people and can’t even listen to them, you’re not going to accomplish anything.
You know these neighborhood policing initiatives where you see the officers playing in the neighborhood playground or courts with a bunch of kids? You know who these officers are?
No. Who are they?
The black cops! The hispanic cops! No! I need the white cops there!! Am I right or wrong?
You tell me!
The black kids don’t need to see black cops. They need to trust the white cops! The communities of (color) need to see white cops and the white cops need to see those communities. Thats how you learn to bridge that by the way.
What do cops themselves think would be a better way for people to express their grievances about policing in America?
You know how many community policing initiatives I’ve seen come and go? They’re doing it wrong. They’ve been doing it wrong. I’m looking at all the Irish cops, all the white cops and I’m saying you’re going into the Black and Hispanic neighborhoods. They need to see them all the time. But they don’t do that.
Why not?
They’re not creative enough. They didn’t grow up that way.
Do the protestors have legitimate ideas about reforms that need to happen here in America.
Look. I had people in chokeholds - when someone is fighting with me - but they didn’t die. It’s very very hard to get someone to put their hands behind their back when they’re fighting with you and trying to run away. So, when a person starts saying “I can’t breathe”, like in that video, (the video of Derek Chauvin kneeling on George Floyd). You have to loosen your grip. He was cuffed, there were other officers around.
What was wrong with that officer’s actions?
I bet you he doesn’t like anyone who doesn’t have his skin color. In the heat of passion, people’s true color’s come out. People lose it.
What recourse do people have to get rid of officers who get caught using disproportionate force on the job?
And why are cops so angry at the public for suggesting that some cops are bad if you are freely wiling to admit that some cops are bad? Why do they get so indigntat for being held accountable?
I don’t like the Mayor but he said something true, ‘I need to have a Union that doesn’t just protect cops but goes after ones that do something bad”. When a cop kills someone in an unjustified way, shoots them in the back and the cop gets arrested and goes to jail, why doesn’t the union turn around and say, “ you know what? that behavior’s not part of our way, that’s not us, that’s not who we are?”
That’s a good question. Why?
Do you know the people who control the unions? Are they black or Hispanic? NO! They’re white. And they’re OLD. They’re 1960’s mentality still. Here’s a good point. Last year the NYC PBA announced for the first time that they’re going to change their name from Patrolmen’s Benevolent, because they’re acknowledging the 5000 female police officers, to the Police Benevolent Association.
But they never changed it before. You know why they changed it only recently? There was a big supreme court ruling the year before. Janus vs. AFSCME. Why are my union dues being taken out when I don’t support that union’s political agenda? And he took it to the Supreme Court. They ruled that any city state federal worker who is part of a union no longer has to give union dues if they don’t feel like it. So the PBA realized - this is my surmise - they have 5000 women now right? - those women could say, we have federal law behind us, we don’t have to pay our dues if we don’t feel like it, and you still have to represent us by law. So the PBA said, you know what? Let’s change this before this dragon comes out of the water. So it almost seems that you have to force their hand to get change. They won’t do it freely.
Do you think this summer’s protests will help force their hand to create meaningful reform?
It has been forced. All the responses to the police shootings in this country have political power. Look, I am blue blood through and out. I will always give cops the benefit of the doubt. But this is a tough time for policing. I see police dying and I don’t see mass protests in this country. I really don’t.
And if it was up to me I’d have all cops walk out for a week. And see what happens.
What do you think might happen?
Do you know there are hardly any more drug arrests in New York City? Narcotics is not even going out to do narcotics arrests any more. It’s a free for all. It’s a free for all even 6-8 months ago. Crime is going up before COVID and it will continue to go up even more. Why? Once the protests ease and things calm down - and it will - law enforcement is not going to forget this. They’re going to say we’re not going to arrest anybody. Why? Just because they don’t want to get caught doing something bad and lose their pension.
Does that feel fair? Are protestors asking for cops not to arrest people? Or are they asking for cops not let their emotions and biases flow into the way they do their job?
That is a fair ask. You want to be treated as a human being. But I know, if I go, me as a Puerto Rican American, to Mississippi on a Friday night and walk into some bar and tell them to turn off Nascar and put on basketball? I don’t know how well received that’s gonna be. [Laughs]
We’re one of the most racist countries in the world. We have the most people in jail. But why is that? Because it’s big business! Follow the money.
True. Do you think that cops are acting as the lightning rod for an issue that is much deeper? They are the sword and the shield, but the problem goes beyond them as street-level enforcers. It’s the mentality of politicians making laws, and the expectations of culture?
It is the culture. It really is. I blame media. The owners of media companies. Because the media plays with words in presenting the story to us. Sure. Take ‘school shootings’. Why don’t they say “a young white male shot 50 kids”. No they’ll say a male. But then when a black male kills someone they’ll say, “a black male shot a so and so.” Why do they include race then? We should mention race for every news story or not at all.
Ironically, again, it’s powerful white people that are helping drive the problem.
Yes. I think you’re right. And listen I respect everybody. There are a lot of good people on this planet. It’s always a few who are in a position of power who are in a position to exercise that. I’m tired of hearing the apologies. These actors and policitions coming out since the protests to apologize for something they said that was wrong. And I’m like, “sorry? no. What you said is who the fuck you are!” [laughs]
You can practice your beliefs at home. It’s good to have differences. We don’t have to agree, but we can respect.
It seems like we’re at a moment right now where the tensions are too high for respect
Trump - someone probably gave him good advice - if Trump hadn’t pulled the National Guard out from DC. And they had opened fire on those protestors, the city would have burned down. All it needs is one spark to go to the next level.
What do you think about the fact that the story of the protest in DC became about Trump, and William Barr the Attorney General, these powerful white guys, they are the string pullers who are telling law enforcement what to do.
It doesn’t help that the President is not their as a peacemaker. Tell me some bullshit. Bring us together. But he’s dividing us even more. And that is very very dangerous to do that at this time.
The situation reflects his attitude in many ways.
It does. Give me anyone other than him.
Do you think meaningful reform will be enacted as a result of the protests?
It really depends on the municipality and the needs of the individual community. I was hearing about a movement to standardize law enforcement across the nation. That there should be a federal law enforcement czar. But let me tell you something when it comes to politicians? Those standards will take 20 years to be enacted. It’s not going to happen. People have to learn to get along better.
I’ll tell you this: This is the wrong time to get involved in a shooting. You might even hesitate to take your gun out and get killed. We only get seconds.
Do you think people should focus on that when they see videos of cops kneeling on unarmed civilians’ backs and killing them?
It’s horrible. To me that’s murder. I was taught by old timers who went to Vietnam. You didn’t talk back to these cops. But they believed, when the cuffs go on to an assailant, the fighting stops. I believe those rules. There can be no more physical abuse when the cuffs go on. And I always taught that to young cops.
Is that attitude is difficult to enforce, when there are so many centers of power within the police force? Different captains having different spheres of influence?
If I was commissioner, I would put in a system where even the lowliest cop on the bottom, the one on the street, can file an anonymous complaint against a supervisor. And then we listen to those complaints as criteria. And remember, it would not be about discipline. It would be about attitudes towards the community.
If you get 10-15 cops talking about how “officer X is nasty against white people”, racism works both ways, they should have something in place where they can pull a captain in and say “look, you already have 10 complaints. Everywhere you go we’re getting complaints. It’s not about your work, it’s about you.” And then that officer would have to take a sensitivity class. Or, we’re going to make life miserable for you.
Is there an internal complaint review system in place like that in the NYPD?
No. No. That does not exist.
Well what are you supposed to do? What power do you have to influence a captain that is treating his subordinates in the wrong way?
I used to be high up in the NYPD Hispanic Society. I used to say, we need to study, we need to take tests, so that when we rise, we can collectively effect change. That’s the way we could do it.
Taking power.
Yes.
So there’s no system that allows officers to anonymously report complaints about their supervisors?
Not anonymously. They encourage you to give your name. So no one’s gonna speak up because it’s not anonymous. You gotta realize, policing is a 22 year career, minimum. So if I find out that you’re the one who ratted me, what happens when I become inspector or chief? I’m coming after you. And in the NYPD, it doesn’t just effect you. They’re going to remember when your kid becomes a cop. “We’ll fix his kid’s fucking ass.”
(NOTE: While the City’s EEO (Equal Employment Opportunity, the body responsible for investigation internal agency allegations) policy materials clearly state that complainants are protected from retaliation by supervisors, in practice the situation is complicated. The materials essentially encourage individuals to name themselves in the complaint process. “If you do not reveal your identity,” they note, “it may be difficult to investigate your complaint.” They continue,“If you request that your identity be concealed, your agency EEO representative will attempt not to reveal it.” Finally, it concludes, “You should know, that sometimes, during the course of an investigation, your identity may become obvious to the person that you are complaining about.”)
But the Equal Employment Opportunity Office exists to allow officers to “anonymously” report abuse.
If it happens to THEM. Not if they see it happening elsewhere. There’s a big difference.
What should the NYPD have been doing to make it easier for an inclusive culture to take root?
It’s all about how you frame who is and who is not included. These types of issues should be investigated by an outside, independent agency. And they have to be good investigators. They can’t be someone showing up to a desk and just getting a paycheck. And there have to be discipline mechanisms in place. Or else it’s meaningless.
How might you inspire officers to change their culture internally?
Just like you have an EEO unit where cops can give a complaint about what happens to them, they need a way to anonymously report behavior they see that isn’t in line with codes of conduct. But it’s a hard job being a good cop, of investigating other cops. I don’t know if I could do it.
You don’t know if you could be a good cop right now, during these times?
I don’t know.
Why not?
I guess maybe because I always cared about human beings. I took pride in patrolling neighborhoods. And to see these protestors paint me as a bad guy because of one truly bad cop who killed someone. It degrades your self worth. It makes you feel worthless. Cops are rats too. Why do you think there are so many cops who commit suicide? (NOTE TBD cops committed suicide in 20-20). They are afraid that any complaint they make will get back to them.
8 US police departments kill black men at higher rates than the US murder rate. What do you think about that?
I’m sure its true. That is fucked. When I was a cop, sitting in a car in plainclothes with bunch of other cops, we’d see a white guy running and say, “Oh he’s going for a jog.” Then we’d see a black or hispanic guy, and go, “oh we better keep an eye on him.” That’s stereotyping. It’s not against the law. We’d also say, the minute that black guy running turns around, turns his head to look behind him, now we go and talk to him.
What if you saw a white guy running and he turned his head to look back?
I’m gonna stop him. He might be running from somebody. I always said don’t look at the color, look at the behavior. So I’d need to talk to that person who keeps looking back. And then we hear something on the radio, “male black wanted for robbery”, and then we got him.
Let’s talk about the Capitol Riots. Do you think the Capitol Police underestimated what they were up against? Or is the fact that they were less prepared also reflective of some bias?
No, no, no. That was done intentionally. That was set up like that. Do you know how many demonstrations are done in New York City, in the history of the city or the capital, Washington D.C.? Didn't they go through Black Lives Matter, this summer? Their understaffed response was done and designed to be overwhelmed.
Do you know anyone else in law enforcement who has that point of view?
Everybody that I know. Willie, I knew about the insurrection a month ago.
You’ve got to tell me this stuff.
All the cops kept sending me texts, " you know what's going to happen?" So many cops are talking. It's thousands. Nobody knows this.
What did they want to happen? Did they want the protestors to get in?
I think, if you ask law enforcement, they wanted Trump to remain in office. Absolutely. Maybe, but why would they storm the Capitol, anyway?
To symbolically scare-
But I also believe they wanted to get those envelopes of the votes.
Oh, yeah. Right.
If you walk out with those envelopes, you can't count the votes.
What do you think would've happened if the Capitol rioters were Black? How do you think the response would've played out?
Willie, now you're making me laugh. Well, the year's not 2525. It's only 2021, and sadly, I think there would've been shots fired. There would've been arrests...
In greater numbers?
No doubt about it. I think the response would've been different.
The Right is trying to say, "Oh, the violence that happened in the capital is the same as the violence that happened in the summer's protests." Do you think that that's true, as a cop?
You know something? I saw a lot of burning this summer. I saw a lot of looting. And I've seen looting all my life, though. It's not just Black Lives Matter. It's looting in the 1977 blackout when I was a teenager. They destroyed the city. And who destroyed it? It wasn't the people on Park Avenue who did it.
Well, they're comfortable. They don't have any reason to.
Right. Well, there's no reason why you should destroy a man's business who you know, you go shopping there every day, either.
Unless they don’t have shoes, right? What do you hope happens after this?
I would love for law enforcement to try to look at it from the other side and say, "Okay, how can we do this better? How can we engage in a community that we don't live in?” How can we say, "You know what, they're human beings. What is it that they're going through? How can I at least make it better, where my job is easier, less stress, and these people that I serve, because, remember, that's how I always looked at it, that if you serve them, that they will be able to approach you with any issue and trust you without the fear of getting killed?
What’s at stake for law enforcement moving forward?
They should prioritize and say, "You know, this is my America. The earth beneath my feet is what I patrol, am proud of and willing to die for," because you do die at work. So it's the flag. It's the land that you have beneath your feet and the rights it's given to you, your liberty. This is why you wear your uniform. Otherwise, then what does it all mean? It means nothing.